pistol caliber carbines.

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BlackHawk*K
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Joined: 12 May 2001, 17:00
Location: Oregon

pistol caliber carbines.

Post by BlackHawk*K » 11 Mar 2012, 20:08

ok.. snicker.. laugh. roll on the ground if you find the need to.. but i have been fascinated by the pistol caliber carbines. ( the top 3 basic calibers 9mm, .40 and .45ACP.)

BF 3 has them.
the UMP-45 (.45 ACP )
the PP-2000 ( 9mm)
the PP-19 ( 9mm)
the AS VAL (.45 ACP )
etc.

now. being me, i cant afford AR 15s for now.. ( later... yea im sure... )
and i am by no means really knowledgeable. specially about calibers etc.. such as the .223 and the nato 5.53 ammo. i know there are differences. such as the nato 5.53 has a higher barrel pressure then the .223 caliber. and that you can fire a .223 caliber round in the 5.53 nato firearms. but its not recommended the other way around. ( so BF3 wise.. there may be .40 cals that i didnt mention.. but i dont know if there are a nato equivalent. so be gentle you knowledgeable ones! ) that being said.. i went and purchased my first pistol cal carbine.. there are a number of reasons i did. here they are..

1. cheaper then the AR 15 5.53 ammo or the AK-47 ammo 7.62x39
2. cheaper to buy the actual firearm.
3. cross share of ammo between carbine and home defense pistol.

as to the other reasons.. they differ depending on what platform you purchase..

some carbines come as a kit type platform.. you need a lower off such guns as a Glock or 1911 in order to complete the firearm. its a intriguing idea... but the problem i see is, if you need your pistol as a back up.. then what? or you need to purchase the lower or an other pistol in order to use it. then you have your complete carbines.. designed bottom up to be a pistol caliber carbine.

the later is what i purchased yesterday.

introducing the hi point 995ts carbine.
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/carbine ... s_9mm.html

i know.. hi point.. from all the reading i have done latly.. hi point has NOT been on the top of the list of hi quality guns. rank right up there on the cheapest POS you can buy though..but, as i started reading up on this carbine a funny thing happened. i started seeing more decent reviews then negative ones.. let me say it strait though.. the negative reviews brought up some really good, valid points.. for example.. a 10 rd clip!? really?? luckily some aftermarket manufactures are making 15 round mags for this weapon now.. but still. hi point dosnt even offer anything else. there are some mag seating issues but usually arises from those slamming the mag home and going. but still, i suppose if your in a defensive situation, its NOT a good thing, that causes a failure to load. there were some others.. but on the other hand.. there were a LOT of good reviews. it operates well and extremely accurate. it comes in 9mm, .40 and .45 calibers. i chose 9mm because that will be the pistol i get for home defense. it has rails built in the synthetic stock for accessories and comes with the fore grip. ( that has the tool you need to tear down the riffle stored inside)

now as a home defense riffle? uhh. for in home? i would go shotgun myself.. specially living in a rural area.. close range damage.. but wont go threw 3 houses before it decides to stop.. im all for protecting my own etc. but, i cant imagine how i would feel if a stray shot i fired injured a innocent. ( one of the reasons i settled on the 9mm ). so for me this works fine. it falls in the definitions of what i wanted. but it wont have the stopping power of a larger caliber riffle. ( AK, AR, just about any other riffle besides .22 cal??) to be honest. i think i would rely on the pistol in the home though. but the 9mm still falls in what im looking for so thats what im going with.. the .45 ACP i have is a lot of fun. but i got that primarily for the history involved. and the fact i cant buy a real, historical, true 1911. so this worked. in order to need anything bigger then a 9mm i think it would be a person(s) who REALLY had it out for me or wanted something of mine.. and that would be simple enough. just 1 shot threw the exterior wall in my bedroom would do it.. their threat would be over.. ( trust me, i build for a living, i know full well what stands between us and the outside world in 90% of homes. most 80's homes have .5 inch of some type of plywood. (siding) and .5 inch of drywall and between 3.5 to 5.5 inches of insulation. some newer homes have 2 layers of plywood type material. ( plywood and siding ) and drywall. so thats a whopping 1.5 inches of potection.. take a 2x4 out sometime shooting and see if your bullet wont go clean threw it? unless your just plain lucky and they shoot the studs. then damn! after thats done buy a lottery ticket too because your on a roll! )

another interesting point point about this firearm... it cost 299.00.. yup not a typo..

AR-15 start a the sportsman lower quality around 700 and go up. ( even used ones from what i have seen so far.)
AK-47. seems to start around 500 and up. ( depending on what, where, when and why..)
i have seen a few SKS's around for 300 ( but very few and stock. no mods including clips etc.) but they are fairly bulky guns for a home gun.

to be honest.. i have had a hard time finding even a 9mm pistol for 300.00. ( unless its a hi-point. ) some well used ones maybe, here and there. in fact in the gun library at Cabela's, i seen a few Glock 9mms for sale between 325 to 400 range.. ( yup saving for one of those as we speak! ) seen a LOT of .22 cal riffles configed to look like something similar to these and cost twice as much or more doing it. so there we have it.. a interesting gun no matter what.. inexpensive to say the least. reliable since the mechanism has been around for quite a few years and still get good reviews on it.

anyhow.. will let you know how this thing turns out.. im excited to take it out. the top point all reviews gave this carbine is "fun" even the more serious types.. so i expect to have some "fun" too. :)

Hammer
Posts: 7807
Joined: 11 May 2005, 14:50

Re: pistol caliber carbines.

Post by Hammer » 11 Mar 2012, 21:35

i hope that cheap purchase does not bite you. if you really want a carbine i would look at .45 or 9mm like you are. ar-15's can be barreled and chambered in many different calibers (not that i would recommedn all of these and would want to see where quality parts are available):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15#Alte ... 5_Calibers

there is a lot of bunk out there about 5.56 NATO (NOT 5.53!) vs .223 Remington. There are differences in the specs, mostly in the chamber pressure and the round measurements. .223 was created for a bolt action rifle, 5.56 was created for the semi-auto battle rifle. You can shoot .223 in your 5.56 NATO, but do NOT shoot 5.56 NATO in your .223 chamber - bad things could happen. Technically accuracy can suffer when shooting .223 out of a 5.56 chamber but these rifles are not really accurate enough to show it unless they are special purpose built. There are hybrid chambers as well that tend to minimize the accuracy issue to be able to fire the .223 specialty rounds in matches. There is a Wylde chamber and my rifle has a 5.56 National Match chamber.

i can probably build you an ar-15 for less than you think, with good quality. not sure if Buff is into building them too.
Helmut

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BlackHawk*K
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Re: pistol caliber carbines.

Post by BlackHawk*K » 07 Aug 2012, 00:05

just wanted to pop up a quick update on this post.

so i have put a few hundred rounds threw my hipoint 995ts carbine and i have to say. its is a very fun riffle to shoot. i had some fail to load issues right off the bat, but after reading some posts i left the mags loaded for a few weeks and polished the feed ramp and now it eats anything i throw in it like its starving. i have to say this about it so far. it kinda looks funky for a "tactical" riffle, and my buddies colt AR15 was MUCH lighter. but for being a low cost carbine, i DO like the peep hole sites.. VERY accurate to about 100 yrds. then the 9 mm seems to drop dramatically, but thats to be expected. i did pick up a hi point c9 9mm pistol. it shares mags with the carbine well, including the 15 round mag. i did the same with the pistol. ( polished speed ramp etc. and same results.) ok i admit, the pistol is a brick... i got it mainly because i was curious about all the love/hate that revolves around the highpoint brand name. i probably wont try any other calibers of this brand name. unless they totally change their blowback actions to something better. blow back weapon are very heavy compared to other systems. i did pick up a KSI model 213 ( similar to the norinco 213 tokarov pistol. in 9 mm ) great little pistol. just started back to work so will have to wait for awhile. but i got my eye on doing a AR15 build soon.. found a nice aluminum lower receiver by a Oregon manufacture for 150. i think i will start my build off of that. and go from there. it looks like a fun build. i would like to build my upper too. but not sure if it would be better to buy a full upper or not yet.. i would like something i did the whole build on. but, $$ talks in the end sometimes.. if not on this build i will do one someday :)

Hammer
Posts: 7807
Joined: 11 May 2005, 14:50

Re: pistol caliber carbines.

Post by Hammer » 07 Aug 2012, 21:33

let me know if you want to build your own or me to do it, buti think you said what you want to do. :) you will need to buy a few things (tools) to do it though.

i do have two extra lowers, and they will not cost you $150. made by JD Machine (or roll marked with the previous company name - same manufacturer) here in San Dego. i also have an extra quad rail free float front end by Midwest Indutries in FDE.
Helmut

Softball
Posts: 6064
Joined: 29 Jun 2002, 18:11
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: pistol caliber carbines.

Post by Softball » 27 May 2013, 23:34

Helmut,
I know this is an old post, but do you still have any of the lowers for sale? I'm looking at getting one, but I thought I'd see if you still had them and want to sell one. Let me know.

~SB
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"SILENCE, I KILL YOU!!" - Achmed the Dead Terrorist

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